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Post by bluefedish on Jan 19, 2008 17:41:30 GMT -5
Goodleburg Cemetery is a small, located basically in the middle of nowhere. This cemetery is very old, and contains the remains of at least one Revolutionary War veteran. The spot is very beautiful, though many headstones are broken/vandalized. Tales abound of the 1800's era abortion doctor who lived across the road. he supposedly buried the aborted fetuses in the cemetery, and if the mother did not survive the procedure, he would toss her body into the cemetery's pond. Ghost stories include the apparitions of crawling babies, and the sounds of babies crying. Also mentioned is the ghost of the doctor hanging, after he took his own life from guilt. Another local Goodleburg legend is that the area of the cemetery is home to the hellhounds - large, ferocious ghostly dogs with glowing red eyes. VisitingGoodleberg Cemetery is open until dusk (sunset) and then re-opens at 8am. Any individual or group that is found there after sunset will be charged with trespassing and subject to a fine of not less than $1,250. The property surrounding the cemetery, is private property and anybody caught is likely to be arrested and charged. In addition, the entire road has now been made a "no standing" tow-away zone. Any cars parked there will be towed away and impounded. Selected Sources:
www.kidsinthepark.org/ghost/goodlebergrow1col2.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodleburg_Cemetery |
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Post by JayMan on Jan 19, 2008 23:09:37 GMT -5
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Post by bluefedish on Jan 20, 2008 13:34:37 GMT -5
Jay I modified your message a little due to I moved "Shadow People" under "Ghosts", so that link that you posted won't work.
~Blue
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Post by bluefedish on Jan 21, 2008 20:19:50 GMT -5
I looked up a few different web-sites, I only posted 2 of them (where I got the info. from) that I found most interesting. If you know the "real" facts then post it. That's what this web-site is for, so people can discuss things & interests as well as to learn.
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Post by WOLF on Jan 21, 2008 23:15:03 GMT -5
Ok, let's not start a war here!
This is a discussion group, so let’s keep all views open for discussion. Through this we can weed out facts from legends, and learn not only about the location and history, but also where some if not all the legends come from.
First off, I know there is more myth than fact behind the stories of Goodleburg Cemetery. The same can be said on countless other locations (Easter Island, Stonehenge) or individuals (Vlad Tepes/ Dracula, Da Vinci). Perhaps the people associated with the Goodleburg Cemetery should be proud that their consecrated ground is regarded in such awe. None the less, I am an advocate for providing factual and historical information. With this said, I suggest we post the historical accuracies of the location. We can also discus the folklore as well, and perhaps find the origins of many of the stories, as well as in turn learn more about the place. Also, keep in mind, many legends and mythology has some foundation in truth or metaphors in which to learn.
In my opinion, that is one of the beauties of having these kinds of topics in a discussion group. The term “history” is a relative term. Some say history is written by the victors, while others say history is written for the time of the current reader. Many of us have heard various “histories” regarding Goodleburg Cemetery and places similar. So together as a group, let’s not simply look only at “history” or “facts” rather we should guide ourselves in looking for Knowledge, Wisdom, and Truth.
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Post by ivymoon on Jan 22, 2008 11:40:07 GMT -5
After reading this whole thing, I'm about ready to puke a little.
I thought this is a discussion board, to share knowledge, and to have some fun with the knowledge as well as having fun reading about Folklore.
There's too much seriousness in life as is, as well as there's more internet wars in other websites.
To the researcher, I find your facts behind the Folklore really interesting, by the way, but can you keep your personal comments about the *drunken morons around the campfire to yourself.
It's wonderful that you're passionate about this place, but why do you feel that YOU have to be all over someone who posts anything about Goodleburg Cemetery other than historical fact(s)??
If this makes you so sensitive, why do you feel so passionate about teaching or sharing your Historical Facts to this or any other websites similar, even though you get testy cause someone started a thread on the Folklore of the place? (Just to start a discussion to learn about how these folklore get there)?
I'm going to get a bit Spiritual here..
Be very careful on being passionate about something. Passion/Being passionate is connected to the Element/Physical of Fire.
If you let the Passion(FIRE) get out of control, it will consume.
It seems like to me by reading what JayMann has said, he needs to sit and control his inner Fire.
To Jay Mann.. Like I've said before, I do find your Facts really interesting to learn about this place.
I hope to learn more on whatever you have to offer in the future.
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Post by JayMan on Jan 22, 2008 13:46:49 GMT -5
There we go. When I have time, I will upload the aerial maps, historical plat maps, etc, so that I can reference them in this thread. Then, little by little, I will repost specific details, comparing the historical facts with the legends and lore.
I apologize if I came across as being unreasonable or overbearing.
In the mean time...
DISCUSS!
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Post by ivymoon on Jan 22, 2008 14:41:42 GMT -5
Sounds good to me.
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Post by JayMan on Jan 27, 2008 19:03:06 GMT -5
Ok. Here we go. I apologize for the way I came across when this thread first started. Long story short, I'm doing much better now. Recently, a Goodleberg thread was started on Western New York Paranormal's Website (see www.wnyparanormal.org/e107/comment.php?comment.news.185). You will see my long winded response toward the bottom of the thread. The biggest problem I see with the Goodleberg problem lies with the uninformed parties to this ongoing drama. On one hand, we have amateur paranormal groups, explorers, and thrillseekers visiting the site and infuriating the residents. On the other hand we have residents and Town officials pointing the finger at paranormal investigation groups posting and reposting legends and lore, failing miserably to verify the hear-say that is quoted and misquoted from sites like PGS and the Buffalo News. Sure history is written by the "winners." In this case, it is written by the ones who post and re-post, whether verified, speculated, or just plain told by some self proclaimed paraprofessional. The incessant re-posting of the legends and lore in the name of "paranormal research" has led to a seemingly over-bearing majority of resources which quote the myth and legends that my generation and my parents generation made up while partying in the 1970s, 80s, and 90s. I will post more on the origins of the Goodleberg stories as time progresses. I will do my best to cross reference actual news stories. However, I have yet to find ANY credible citations of a Doctor Speaker or Miss Linderman. The ONLY references I have been able to find on these topics trace back to Mason Winfield and Rob Lockheart. If anyone is close enough to these guys to find out the actual source of these names (including dates and publications) I would be glad to incorporate them into my history of the area. However, until I have credible sources (other than a hear-say reference), I consider these characters to be entirely fictional, like the abortion doctor and the demon dogs. But I digress. I will clarify these points at a later date. Also, please feel free to redistribute any of my rants on this subject so that we can spread word of the actual history of this devastated community. Thanx! Jay |
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Post by redwingedfirefox on Jul 25, 2008 21:27:58 GMT -5
If I may add a personal experience from my research at Goodleburg... a group of my friends and I were doing a paper and video project on haunted places in Western New York, and our choice was Goodleburg. Well we were there nothing really strange happened until we left as we left we heard a horse pulled wagon, so we pulled up the road and split two separate ways being in two separate cars looking for the origen of sound when we finished looking we had gone 10 miles in both directions and never found the horses or a wagon. Also because I happen to live very close to Goodleburg I racked my brain and looked into where it could have came from and never found a place near by with a horse pulled wagon. Therefore we concluded that it must have been a ghost sound.
Even though the legend is more of a myth I find the place very very cold and spooky even on the nicest of days. I believe part of it happens to come from the fact that most of the people laid to rest there died of typhoid fever and are not in a proper grave. This in my opinion makes the ground more hallow than any legend ever did. On bad days I find it even hard to drive by Goodleburg road.
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Post by advancedparanormal on Aug 6, 2008 9:45:59 GMT -5
Helen Lindeman (of Kenmore) was a 38 year old school teacher that was abducted Aug 21st 1948 and brutally slain and dismembered. Parts of her found throughout western newyork, including a forearm and both knees in Wales Center. That coupled with a house under investigation on Hunters Creek burnt down and the owner died days beforehand (don't have how yet) could be a possible explaination for the tale. It is suspected that her slayer threw pieces of her body from a moving vehicle through secluded parts of Erie County and Cattaraugus County. Her husband was a Kenmore dentist, Dr. Howard C. Lindeman who identified her body by her teeth and was questioned and suspected of the crime. Killer never was determined or captured. NewspaperArchive.com carries the stories in its various newspapers, also viewable through Ancestry.com.
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Post by JayMan on Aug 6, 2008 22:52:19 GMT -5
The point being made by Advanced Paranormal is that NO WHERE in the Lindeman story that he is quoting does the story mention Goodleberg. But, since both the Town of Wales and Hunters Creek Road are mentioned in the Lindeman story as well as any discussion of Goodleberg Cemetery, the two stories MUST be RELATED. RIGHT?!?!?!
It is a sarcastic statement.
Amirite?
Thank you D for the clarification.
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Post by WOLF on Aug 7, 2008 11:33:59 GMT -5
After reviewing my own personal notes and did a little research, I have to agree with EAJayMan. I have not found any solid connection between the Lindeman story and Goodleburg Cemetery. There are some people, mainly a local writer, which has tried to tie the two together yet no solid evidence has been provided to the public. Personally I would be very interested if such evidence surfaced.
Anywho advancedparanormal, welcome to The Fifth Ring Community. Please take a moment to introduce yourself on the forum. The place to do this is in the Introductions area under the Welcome section.
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